Bertie, and fan-casting Raymond

[tweague]

So I've been enjoying the Bertie-love that ysande and sweetsorcery have been promoting over the last couple of days, sparked by ysande's lovely ficlet. I adore Bertie. I adore all kinds of Bertie. I love him when he's a silly ass, I love him when he smuggles dynamite down his trousers, I love him when he's the first one to point out when a plan is likely to have Unacceptable Enemy Casualty Rate, I love him when he can unexpectedly go undercover in fluent Marseilleise dialect. He is wonderful. But I've never read much Bertie fic. (Which is probably because I tend to gravitate straight to the Biggles/von Stalhein, hem hem, so no one much to blame but myself.) But. BUT. I would like to broaden my reading! So, do any of you have any Must Read Bertie recs? Does the fandom have a classic Bertie 'this should be canon' fic? Who, if anyone, do you pair him with?

Tangentially related: fellows, do we do fandom Gimlet here? If I have a regular pairing for Bertie, it's probably Gimlet - they have something of the same vibe as Bertie + Biggles, but Gimlet is much more into high explosives and fast cars, so he and Bertie at least should have plenty to talk about. Also they canonically look after puppies together, so there's that. I've never written up any fic for them, but I've scribbled a couple in my notebook heap of doom - would anyone be interested if I posted them?? Gimlet is...a bit niche.

UTTERLY UNRELATED THANK GOD, except that Raymond makes a very brief appearance in ysande's fic above and that set me thinking about it - has anyone else seen Biggles: Adventures in Time? It is literally as bad as it sounds, possibly even worse. They stole the flying sequences from (I believe) Aces High, so those at least are quite nice, but every else is truly truly awful. BUT. It utterly implausibly has Peter Cushing as Colonel Raymond, in his last film role (god, what a way to end an amazing career.) And ever since then, Peter Cushing has been my unavoidable mental casting for Raymond. Say, early Frankenstein era Cushing for WWI stories, working right the way up to Grand Moff Cushing for the later Air Police. His precision, his gravitas, his enormously sympathetic air combined with his ability to project 'but I would still let you be killed if I really had to, I'd just regret it' just...really informs the way I think about the character.

Anyone else seen it? If you haven't - probably best not to. But Peter Cushing is amazing.

ETA:

Look at him! He is so sad! He has waited literally fifty years just for the chance of maybe seeing Biggles again because of time travel absurdity! Also sad because he has to be in this terrible film, boooo.

Comments

[philomytha]

There is a tragic shortage of Bertie-centric fic compared to all the other characters, he gets excellent supporting roles all the time but isn't often the star. rietta89's Lightning in a Bottle is a Biggles/EvS fic with loads of excellent Bertieness, though.

I like Bertie/Gimlet, they are absolutely on each other's wavelength in Follows On, though Gimlet is pretty hard-nosed compared to any of the Biggles team, he's not one to be bothered by Unacceptable Enemy Casualties! But give them some dogs and horses and racing cars and Bertie and Gimlet will be happy for weeks :-D

As for The Film, I had an absolute blast watching it a couple of years ago, it's bananas but hey, they managed to fit an awful lot of Biggles/EvS shippiness into it all things considered, and as you say Peter Cushing as Raymond is fantastic (though he does get upstaged by his raven at least once).

[tweague]

...I just read your review of The Film and yep. Yep, that was surely The Film all right. gattycat and I used to watch it with gin about every six months or so, it's just...incredible. The von Stalhein casting I could never quite get over, because the only other thing I've ever seen that actor in is the Doctor Who story 'Battlefield' where he plays THIS GUY

officially the most romantic hero ever to have romantic heroed in Doctor Who and I just. Can't get over casting him as von Stalhein. What message were they trying to put across here. I'm not complaining I'm just confused.

Yeah, it is something of an issue with Bertie + Gimlet that they come from series with quite different ethoses (ethoi?) - I feel they probably need to steer away from any sort of working relationship, because while Biggles will do his best to avoid Unacceptable Enemy Damage, Gimlet will...probably not. And Bertie would do his Best Supporting Man thing that he's so good at and then feel terrible about it later, and Gimlet would be utterly unsympathetic :S Probably best to stick with the Monte Carlo rally and Bertie running pick-ups for their missions, all things considered.

I am, however, convinced they went to school together. Which must have been horrifying.

Thank you very much for the rec, I shall look into it, especially as it seems to have all my favourite things :D

[philomytha]

Bertie and Gimlet at school together, oof, yeah - and now I am visualising Bertie fagging for Gimlet... but as you say, they're much more a pairing for downtime than at work. Bertie's definitely happier not having to work closely with Gimlet too often.

Looks like a magnificent specimen of wild humanity to me! He certainly compares well to most of the EvS illustrations, which range from Maybe to OMFG, and a special extra mention for the Sontaran EvS that was specially commissioned by actual Biggles fans (in my icon with a much less objectionable Biggles and Marie).

And I think blackbentley has had cocktail parties where The Film was the entertainment, though I suspect it's utterly lethal as a drinking game.

[rosanicus]

I am about to comment on this post more generally but: ANCELYN ❤️ Bestest romantic hero Doctor Who ever did as you said. And I do think Biggles and EvS would also end up making out during an impassioned fist fight behind a sofa, so.

[tweague]

Yes he is, and yes they would. And probably did. <3 <3 <3

[black_bentley]

Peter Cushing is in a very different film to everyone else in the cast /o\ I re-watch the film every few years thinking it cannot POSSIBLY be as bad as I remember (spoiler alert: it is).

I do love Bertie and I love writing him, but I personally see him as ace and probably also aromantic, so I think he suffers a lack of page time (screen time?) from not being widely shipped with anyone! I still haven't actually read any of the Gimlet books, but rosanicus once suggested the possibility of him and Bertie having lots of aroace adventures in the countryside and I am 100% here for this.

Edited to add: following philomytha's comment, I can confirm the film is slightly improved if you watch it while drunk in a hot tub, and it's worse if you've got a hangover. For science.

[tweague]

The brilliant (??? one word for it) thing about Biggles: Adventures in Time, is that pretty much all the cast seem to be in different films from one another. It's just that Peter Cushing's film is a *lot* classier than everyone else's. I'm not sure which film Algy thinks he is in, but I think I want to watch his one most.

I can confirm the film is slightly improved if you watch it while drunk in a hot tub, and it's worse if you've got a hangover. For science.

I respect your METHODOLOGICAL RIGOUR.

Yeah, I pretty much just imagine Bertie and Gimlet tearing up Europe in a variety of terrifying ways before the second world war struck and they could get on with blowing things up *in a social sanctioned manner* which was probably a lot more convenient. The Gimlet books are not, for my money, nearly as charming as the Biggles books (or indeed the Worrals books), mostly because the team dynamic never quite seemed to click - Trapper and Copper really didn't do much for me, though I imagine they could be interesting in a good fic writer's hands. But W E Johns was an extremely competent writer when he was turning those out, so they're pretty pacey, and some of them are really striking - I seem to recall one where post-WWII Nazi sleeper cell agents are dressing up as werewolves to exact vengeance on those they deem responsible for the fall of the regime, which is moderately bananas.

[black_bentley]

I'm not sure which film Algy thinks he is in, but I think I want to watch his one most.

AGREED, he's having a tremendous time. They all are actually. Although I can't watch him without remembering he was also Bingo Little in Jeeves & Wooster...

Bertie should get to blow more things up in fic! And I will echo others who have expressed an interest in notebook scribbles :DDD

[ysande]

I do love Bertie and I love writing him, but I personally see him as ace and probably also aromantic

Me too!! Or at least something very very close to those lines. But I think it’s 100% a feature and not a bug, and would absolutely join you in championing the platonic adventures of Bertie making his way through the world, maybe blowing some things up along the way, and finding his Tribe in Biggles & Algy & Ginger (& Erich) <333

[black_bentley]

Oh it's 100% a feature, and Bertie deserves alllllll the platonic adventures <333 I do have a couple of Bertie-centric WIPs on the go, I should really attempt to dust at least one of them off at some point...

[ysande]

I would be SO delighted to read your Bertie fics when they’re done!! <333 and I love even more that they’d be the platonic adventures of Bertie! :)

[rosanicus]

As others have mentioned we do have a bit of a lack of Bertie centric longfic, but I will echo the rec for Lightning in a Bottle! I've been trying to write a crossover centered on him and Lord Peter Wimsey (clearly a second cousin) but it's slow going.

I don't actively ship Bertie much but having read one (1) Gimlet book I do support the Bertie&/Gimlet dynamic very much. Your suggestion that they went to school together is quite compelling, honestly. Would definitely be interested in typed up notebook scribbles!

Biggles Adventures in Time is indeed quite shit but I had a fantastic time watching it. I think it's the genuine love from the actors involved in the Biggles half that makes the thing at all watchable - and the absurdity of the modern half of the plot is sort of wonderfully awful in a way I enjoy as a bad movie connoisseur.

[tweague]

Hahahaha, I am a sucker for a Lord Peter crossover fic!! I remember I was SO DETERMINED to shoe-horn him into a Raffles crossover fic at some point that I had, like, eight-year-old Lord Peter pluckily protecting Raffles from being caught in the act of burglary by his (Peter's) nanny. <3 Lord Peter. I hope the fic comes together for you, I would love to read it one day.

Thanks for the fic encouragement - I'll see if I can hunt it up, though I suspect it needs a lot of revision.

I think it's the genuine love from the actors involved in the Biggles half that makes the thing at all watchable

Yes! They are all Doing Their Best!! Especially the actor who plays Biggles, honestly - he's really not Biggles even slightly, but he's TRYING SO HARD. The effect somewhat increased by his appearances in the Pet Shop Boys 'It Couldn't Happen Here' film, which just makes it look like he spent his whole career cosplaying Biggles whether people asked him to or not.

[sweetsorcery]

There should be more Bertie love at all times!❤️🧐🐶
I try to squash him into any fic where I can possibly make it plausible for him to appear, and I'm always happy when I see him in fic. So yeah, ysande has just made me very happy indeed. :D

It seems to me that 90% of the fandom won't pair Bertie with anyone, the poor lonely boy. :(
I, personally, pair him with Ian Ross, and because this is such a very, very niche pairing, I'm going to shamelessly self-promote and no one can stop me. :D
In fact, my first ever Biggles fic posted was Bertie/Ian - Love is the Sweetest Thing, and completely unrelated Perils of a Pining Pooch with a starring role for Towser. And philomytha has just recently written me spooky Bertie/Ian gift fic: The Guardsman.

I also have a WIP, and many thoughts, about Bertie paired with both Algy and Ginger, in an Alternate Canon where Ian isn't available.

I'm afraid I'm not personally in the Gimlet niche, but you should certainly post whatever you write, always!

I've made an executive decision to avoid that film, but I can believe that Peter Cushing makes a very good Raymond, and I approve of the EvS casting - on the strength of the one clip I've been willing to brave. :D

[ysande]

Hello!! :) I am still quite new to both the fandom and the books, but I have fallen madly in love with both, and most especially with Bertie! <3 I love his ridiculousness (accidental and deliberate), and his deadly competence, and his endless good-naturedness, and his mercurial nature, and (as discussed recently in comments) the underlying thread of vulnerability and maybe loneliness that doesn’t define him, but maybe shapes him <3

I also love Biggles &/ EvS (almost entirely because of the wonderful fics by this fandom), and Biggles & Algy, but really my shipping days seem to be behind me and what I really want is People finding their People/Person and the exploration of that intimacy but outside the expectations of sex, if that makes sense? So I don’t ship Bertie with anyone, but deliberately, because exploring his platonic relationships is 1000% what delights me, but of course this is a delightful fandom of many sandboxes to play in!

But I am so super excited to hear that the Bertie thoughts being released into the universe are multiplying :D And I am ever so extremely delighted to see that you have fic!! Of Bertie!!! At boarding school!!! <333 (As a devoted Enid Blyton fan as a child, I am HERE for that!) My chief regret in life right now is that I don’t have nearly enough time to 1) participate in fandom; 2) read fic; 3) write fic; 4) read the actual books! But I am going to save your Bertie & Gimlet fic for the very next time I have half an hour to myself, and I can’t wait for all the gloriousness that will entail! <33